Q Regarding Pet Evolution - Guild Wars Forums

A. Noid · Mar 29, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Reading over the doc's in the forum regarding pet evolution it states (in a guide to pets by...)
"While the damage output ratio between the pet and its master is undoubtedly an important factor, it must be noted that it is not the only factor. High damage sustained by the pet can override a high damage output ratio, as was illustrated in my first test where the pet was made to deal 100% of the damage but still came out Playful. In fact we do not know with certainty that it is the ratio of damages; the interaction is difficult to untangle as pet kills, damage and experience rate are all tied together, and damage dealt by the master by definition reduces the damage the pet deals, as the enemies die sooner. "

My question is regarding the portion that states that the pet's damage must exceed the masters damage.
Now, if I were to program something of this nature, I would probably set it up as a ratio of damage given to damage taken. Where Dire = 80% Elder = 50% and Hearty = 20%- based on the animals performance alone. (ignore the numbers for now- they're indeed made up)
My point is, do we know - as best as we can- that it is based on animal to master damage? The author asks this question as well.
I think it would be easier, and more effective (thematically) to base it on the animal alone- programing-wise. It would also make sense- more sense to me anyway that the evolution depends on the animals behavior, not animal to master relationship- but hey, that's just me.
Currently, I'm training my pet in Post-Searing. In order to sway the ratio, I am combating Grawl parties with healers. I am applying minimal damage- making my pet do most of the work. If my assumption is correct, he could level slowly, but the amount of damage he does is greatly increased due to the healers keeping the grawl warriors on their feet longer.
Has anyone tried training in this manner?

BTW- please don't get me wrong, the guides are terrific, and EXTREMELY helpful. Thanks to those who put it together.

-A

Boagrius · Mar 29, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

I'm not sure how correct these pet training guides are. Who knows, maybe my situation was a fluke, or more likely I screwed up somehow.

I acquired a Moa Bird. Trained it from level 3 to level 6 around Ascalon. I would obtain full agro & let my pet do all the damage. Then as suggested in a few guides, I took my pet to the Ice Tooth Cave to train it on the Minotaur’s. I again allowed my pet to do all the killing & I absorbed the damage. Once it evolved at level 11 my pet was “Playful” & not aggressive or Dire. Anyone else have this issue?

A. Noid · Mar 29, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Well- on the surface that would blow my theory out of the water.
Your situation seems to imply that it may be a ratio between pet damage and master damage.
Maybe it is a cumulative structure. Where Dire= 1000 damage applied.
It just seems odd to me that this type of evolution mechanic would be that complex. But, being new to the game, I have alot to learn.

I dunno. Maybe it's the Moa

Boagrius · Mar 29, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I???m not sure what happened. I???m guessing I only killed 4 or 5 monsters during the entire pet training from level 3 to 11. And that???s only because I lost aggro & they started attacking my bird. I thought for sure it would result in a more aggressive pet. Hey, I like my Killer Moa!!

I hadn???t seen many players with a Moa, so I was attempting to be different. I do like how it attacks with its claws & its beak though. Moa's are cool in a nerdy kinda way.

Former Ruling · Mar 29, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

The guides assume too much that all pets are alike.

This is not true.

Its all a gamble.

From MY OWN TESTS, I have concluded that pets come with an inate set of what they CAN turn into, and its different pet to pet.

That means before you ever give the pet ANY exp, the pet is already programmed to either Not Evolve at All, have the chance to become Hearty, or the chance to become Dire, or Both, and it has a preference to which it wants.

From my tests (my own pet swapping, and stories from friends), from 10-20% of all pets charmed will not ever level no matter how you train them.

Most other pets will become Hearty, as it is the dominate trait (going into genetics here). Meaning even if Your pet is SUPER-PET and solos the entire world, it still has an OVERWHELMING chance to become Hearty.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is all different in Factions mind you, as from the FPE we can CHARM animals that are already Dire or Hearty (assuming we get there fast enough, as Yeti's spawned near them alot of the time that would Charm them pretty fast)

A. Noid · Mar 29, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I was considering just such a variable. If some pets were spawned with a 10% chance of staying/evolving into x. Or perhaps certain pets were more suseptiple to a certain path- moa's for instance might be particularly difficult to 'cultivate' into dire.
This would account for some of the 'hiccups' that have been reported.
Then again, who says the program isn't written poorly?

Either way, I'll be interested into finishing up my own 'pet project'.

Boagrius · Mar 29, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Please be sure to post the results. Id like to know how your pet turns out.

gou · Mar 29, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

if you tank then you have to provide self-survival skills which is counter productive in terms of dire traing
pet attacks and pet buffs only on the skill bar, max out beastmastery, let him do the tanking and spam the pet attacks like there is no tomorrow
job done.
call of protection and predators pounce is plenty but if you are that paranoid about ol' mittens getting a booboo then bring a bonder monk with you :/

DarK_AssassiN · Mar 29, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I never knew it was all that complicated. Me & my pet level up at about the same time, and my pets damage (and health I guess) has increased quite a bit...

SaintGreg · Mar 29, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I followed the guide exactly and I levelled up 2 moas bird into dire on my ranger and on my warrior first try for both. I just levelled on mergoyles the whle way and used max beast with symbiotic bond, call of protection (at low levels I also used otyugh's cry), call of haste, and pet attacks. The ranger was a bit easier because I could afford the energy to bring melendru's assault, brutal strike and ferocious strike, the warrior I couldn't afford both 10 energy ones.

If you do use the mergoyles outside beetletun or gates of kryta, then symbiotic bond is bplenty to heal your pet, and healing signet or troll unguent, is all you need to keep yourself healed. For a squishie training their pet they might need more self healing but the mileage may vary.

Mar 29, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25	#1
A. Noid Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: N/A Profession: R/E	Q Regarding Pet Evolution Reading over the doc's in the forum regarding pet evolution it states (in a guide to pets by...) "While the damage output ratio between the pet and its master is undoubtedly an important factor, it must be noted that it is not the only factor. High damage sustained by the pet can override a high damage output ratio, as was illustrated in my first test where the pet was made to deal 100% of the damage but still came out Playful. In fact we do not know with certainty that it is the ratio of damages; the interaction is difficult to untangle as pet kills, damage and experience rate are all tied together, and damage dealt by the master by definition reduces the damage the pet deals, as the enemies die sooner. " My question is regarding the portion that states that the pet's damage must exceed the masters damage. Now, if I were to program something of this nature, I would probably set it up as a ratio of damage given to damage taken. Where Dire = 80% Elder = 50% and Hearty = 20%- based on the animals performance alone. (ignore the numbers for now- they're indeed made up) My point is, do we know - as best as we can- that it is based on animal to master damage? The author asks this question as well. I think it would be easier, and more effective (thematically) to base it on the animal alone- programing-wise. It would also make sense- more sense to me anyway that the evolution depends on the animals behavior, not animal to master relationship- but hey, that's just me. Currently, I'm training my pet in Post-Searing. In order to sway the ratio, I am combating Grawl parties with healers. I am applying minimal damage- making my pet do most of the work. If my assumption is correct, he could level slowly, but the amount of damage he does is greatly increased due to the healers keeping the grawl warriors on their feet longer. Has anyone tried training in this manner? BTW- please don't get me wrong, the guides are terrific, and EXTREMELY helpful. Thanks to those who put it together. -A

Mar 29, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53	#2
Boagrius Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Michigan Guild: DARK WOLVES DEN [WOLF] Profession: W/Mo	I'm not sure how correct these pet training guides are. Who knows, maybe my situation was a fluke, or more likely I screwed up somehow. I acquired a Moa Bird. Trained it from level 3 to level 6 around Ascalon. I would obtain full agro & let my pet do all the damage. Then as suggested in a few guides, I took my pet to the Ice Tooth Cave to train it on the Minotaur’s. I again allowed my pet to do all the killing & I absorbed the damage. Once it evolved at level 11 my pet was “Playful” & not aggressive or Dire. Anyone else have this issue?

Mar 29, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38	#3
A. Noid Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: N/A Profession: R/E	Well- on the surface that would blow my theory out of the water. Your situation seems to imply that it may be a ratio between pet damage and master damage. Maybe it is a cumulative structure. Where Dire= 1000 damage applied. It just seems odd to me that this type of evolution mechanic would be that complex. But, being new to the game, I have alot to learn. I dunno. Maybe it's the Moa

Mar 29, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#4
Boagrius Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Michigan Guild: DARK WOLVES DEN [WOLF] Profession: W/Mo	I???m not sure what happened. I???m guessing I only killed 4 or 5 monsters during the entire pet training from level 3 to 11. And that???s only because I lost aggro & they started attacking my bird. I thought for sure it would result in a more aggressive pet. Hey, I like my Killer Moa!! I hadn???t seen many players with a Moa, so I was attempting to be different. I do like how it attacks with its claws & its beak though. Moa's are cool in a nerdy kinda way.

Mar 29, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11	#5
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	The guides assume too much that all pets are alike. This is not true. Its all a gamble. From MY OWN TESTS, I have concluded that pets come with an inate set of what they CAN turn into, and its different pet to pet. That means before you ever give the pet ANY exp, the pet is already programmed to either Not Evolve at All, have the chance to become Hearty, or the chance to become Dire, or Both, and it has a preference to which it wants. From my tests (my own pet swapping, and stories from friends), from 10-20% of all pets charmed will not ever level no matter how you train them. Most other pets will become Hearty, as it is the dominate trait (going into genetics here). Meaning even if Your pet is SUPER-PET and solos the entire world, it still has an OVERWHELMING chance to become Hearty. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is all different in Factions mind you, as from the FPE we can CHARM animals that are already Dire or Hearty (assuming we get there fast enough, as Yeti's spawned near them alot of the time that would Charm them pretty fast)

Mar 29, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33	#6
A. Noid Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: N/A Profession: R/E	I was considering just such a variable. If some pets were spawned with a 10% chance of staying/evolving into x. Or perhaps certain pets were more suseptiple to a certain path- moa's for instance might be particularly difficult to 'cultivate' into dire. This would account for some of the 'hiccups' that have been reported. Then again, who says the program isn't written poorly? Either way, I'll be interested into finishing up my own 'pet project'.

Mar 29, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42	#7
Boagrius Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Michigan Guild: DARK WOLVES DEN [WOLF] Profession: W/Mo	Please be sure to post the results. Id like to know how your pet turns out.

Mar 29, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13	#8
gou Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: globally warmed england Guild: the discarnate	if you tank then you have to provide self-survival skills which is counter productive in terms of dire traing pet attacks and pet buffs only on the skill bar, max out beastmastery, let him do the tanking and spam the pet attacks like there is no tomorrow job done. call of protection and predators pounce is plenty but if you are that paranoid about ol' mittens getting a booboo then bring a bonder monk with you :/

Mar 29, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23	#9
DarK_AssassiN Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: FL, US Profession: W/R	I never knew it was all that complicated. Me & my pet level up at about the same time, and my pets damage (and health I guess) has increased quite a bit...

Mar 29, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30	#10
SaintGreg Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2005	I followed the guide exactly and I levelled up 2 moas bird into dire on my ranger and on my warrior first try for both. I just levelled on mergoyles the whle way and used max beast with symbiotic bond, call of protection (at low levels I also used otyugh's cry), call of haste, and pet attacks. The ranger was a bit easier because I could afford the energy to bring melendru's assault, brutal strike and ferocious strike, the warrior I couldn't afford both 10 energy ones. If you do use the mergoyles outside beetletun or gates of kryta, then symbiotic bond is bplenty to heal your pet, and healing signet or troll unguent, is all you need to keep yourself healed. For a squishie training their pet they might need more self healing but the mileage may vary.